WESTERLY PENTLAND

en voilà ...
bateau-occasion.vivastreet.fr[...]9950424

www.lemillesabords.com[...]ly.html

www.xboat.fr[...]LE.html

je le connais un peu celui-là
Mais il est osmosé.
Donc un traitement à prévoir dans les 5 ans.

prix ...
à ce prix là, celui-là est quand même mieux !
bateau-occasion.vivastreet.fr[...]9950424

sinon, la loi du marché ...
en ce moment, les occasions pullulent, et surement pas facile de vendre un occase un peu ancienne, sauf niche particulière (biquilles, régatiers, ...)

alors, tout se discute ;-)

westerly Konsort
on trouve des Konsort, un peu plus court mais plus confortable à ce prix.
j'ai acheté le mien 19 000 euros en Angleterre, il y en a un à vendre en ce moment 22 000 euros dans la manche.

pour moi, il n'y a pas photo entre ces deux bateaux.
le Konsort est plus volumineux et plus moderne de conception.

pour ces deux bateaux, n'hésite à prendre contact avec les brokers des anglo normandes. Ils en ont régulièrement à la vente a des prix cassés, pourtant largement négociables encore...
Ils sont très professionnels et par les temps qui courent, accordent toutes facilités à l'acheteur.

j'ai payé mon bateau en Euros, après présentation par le vendeur de tous les papiers nécessaires.

21.000
J'ai vendu le mien il y a quelques mois à 21.000€, prix qui me semblait correct.
Il était en plutôt très bon état (manquait une peinture de pont pour être parfait), extérieur comme intérieur nickel et bichonné. (peintures, élec, etc.)
Peu d'électronique, un moteur de 35 ans qui tournait bien, et un jeu de voiles neuves.

Je ne serai pas descendu plus bas.
Je l'avais acheté 15.000€ dans un état terrifiant.

a +

Fonkytur
Je me souviens t'avoir contacté au sujet de ton voilier.
Le Pentland est-il un bon choix pour un programme hauturier?

courtiers à jersey
Voila celui qui tient la place à jersey.
très bonne réputation. je confirme. Il a fait toutes les démarches pour les papiers de radiation et autres lors de mon achat.

www.yachtworld.com[...]tsales/

Adaptation du Konsort pour un tour du monde : moi j'ai fait 25 miles avec mon bateau ! juste le temps de le ramener à St Malo et de le mettre à terre.

le bateau m'a semblé raide à la toile et stable de route.
Mais je confirme l'aspect solide lors du grand nettoyage que j'ai fait. bateau très bien structuré.

Discus
Le Westerly Discus qui semble être plus adapté au grand voyage a-t-il les même qualités nautiques?
Il me semble assez proches au niveau ligne.

gros avantage :
ne tape pas au près… défaut du konsort dès que la mer se hache au près… ça sonne entre les quilles ;-) Le discus ne sonne pas, il écrase

Le Discus
en effet semble plus adapté, et est proche du Konsort au niveau carène. Je ne crois pas qu'il existe en biquille.

Discus
ce bateau m'a fait rêvé avant l'achat d'un ne quid nimis.

je le pense parfaitement adapté à de la nav hauturière.
Il y a pas mal de versions. la plus "moderne" est le sloop avec un long bridge deck entre le cockpit et la descente.
il y en a très peu.

le Discus
continue de me faire rêver, et il est sans commune mesure avec les 31 pieds (Pentland/Berwick/Longbow/Renown) et définitivement catalogué "blue water" (de voyage) par les anglais.
Il a existé en monoquille et en biquille, en sloop, ou en ketch, avec une coursive qui permet d'accéder (bien courbé quand même) à la cabine arrière par l'intérieur, et non pas par le cockpit, comme sur le Pentland ou le Westerly 33 (idem que Discus par ailleurs).
Problème : quand le Pentland est à 20-25000 €, le Discus est à 30-35000 € minimum, et plutôt trèsrare en France.
J'en connais un à vendre depuis peu à Lanildut, (cf photo) chez Lanildut Marine, version ketch, à terre depuis quelques années, on dit que la coque est très saine et le moteur démarre au quart de tour, même après ces années à terre, mais tous les vaigrages sont à refaire et le prix est sous le marché.

J'en connais un…
aux Antilles… osmosé et moteur à revoir… version sloop monoquille.

Quelques réflexions en anglais de propriétaires de Konsort
quant à l'hélice idéale pour leur voilier préféré (repris sur le site des westerly owners)
Beaucoup d'info... et de questions !

Quote************

I have a Konsort fitted with a MD11C and a 14x13, 2 blade prop, at present I get 4.9 knots @ 2000 revs and 5.6 knots flat out @ 2400 revs. I have been offered a 16x12, 2 blade prop which will fit my existing shaft. My question is, if I fit this prop can I expect more speed at crusing revs and thus not have to run the engine flat out so often.

Hull speed is about 6.7 on a Konsort. Your prop should get you close to this at max rpm. You should cruise at about 75 to 85% of full rpm. You would do a lot better with a 3 blade prop. 16 is a large diameter for a sailboat in my opinion. Is 2400 rpm max rpm? If you can't achieve full rated rpm you're overpropped. On the other hand it sounds like you need more pitch, not diameter and a 3 blade will do a better job as well as being more balanced.
Here is a good link explaining how to choose the right prop.
www.westbynorth.com[...]ng.aspx

There was an article I think in the Westerly owners Spring newsletter in 1995, where using a Bukh 20 HP the owner fitted a 15 x 13 three bladed prop on a Griffon and transformed the boat. There was another article on the same topic this time relating to a Konsort with similar results but I seem to have lost that one.
A friend who has a Konsort (KT15) with the Bukh 20, fitted the 15x13 three bladed prop and is more than satisfied.
Your engine is I believe 25 HP so should be happy with a prop of that size, though the Bukh does punch above its size when it comes to grunt.
All the experts seem to agree that the bigger dia props are more efficient, if I find the missing article I will pass on the details.

Uprated my Konsorts 2 blade prop for a 15 x 11 3 blade prop in 2008 at a cost of £324.30 from Hamble Propellers. I wanted a more punchy prop firstly to get some decent bite when reversing out of my berth and secondly to have more forward speed and wave/tide punch. Reverse in now much better with instant response and in forward I'm getting very near hull speed without going to maximum revs. As for drag issues, well I'm not into racing so drag is not important to me and have not noticed any drop off in speed when sailing.

When I bought my Konsort in 1979 a two bladed 13"x11" propellor was mounted for the Bukh 20 hp. This propeller was too small. I made complaints to Westerly about it and they asked me to carry out some tests for Westerly with a two bladed 15"x12" (I had asked for a 15"x13") and a two bladed 14"x14". Based on results of these tests Westerly decided to use a two bladed 14"x13", which in my opinion was still too small. Based on prop curves a two bladed 16"x12" was my favorite but there was too little clearance to the hull to apply that diameter.

I have chosen for the two bladed 14"x14" and still use that prop. It gives good thrust and a good loading for the engine and for me also important, low drag when sailing.

Referring to Nov 6th, I also bought Marjorie; Konsort No 18 in 1979!! the 13/11 was obviously a way of perhaps getting rid of unwanted stock! Marjorie attained just 4.5 knots with this. Replaced with the 15/12 the speed upped to 6.5 knots full revs whatever that was, which seemed sensibly 20% below maximum for a trip to Paris with the kids in 81. I think It is still the same ratio with a further prop! I will let you know. I, last winter with a crew member and as a birthday present after thirty years of sterling service replaced the 20 h.p. Bukh with the new 24 h.p. (by the way it is the same footprint) Whichever prop is on I will still be running the engine in (vibrations etc.) for around a final 40 hours at progressively greater speeds to full revs. but have now virtually achieved that. After some 15 hours I gave it a full blast for three minutes and achieved just under 7.5 knots, on a clean hull again slack tide F2 on the nose no sail up. Hull speed now comes into the equation and further performance will be limited but another prop would be interesting if you feel the twin keeler will benefit.

Together with this I am wondering how turbinators on the keels will perform at near hull speed. There will not really be much point for engine running but for sailing the turbinators will be an asset. I of course will on average normally run the 24 at 80%full revs whatever that feels like. Ian is a retired Airline pilot and like me air minded; we are both practical hands on sailors so is playing with a mark in the flywheel to achieve this facility next visit for our winter sailing. The turbinators will need some serious working out as they are excellent on Aircraft. together with the canards that save appreciable amounts of fuel. This brings me to the ultimate effort by considering outward welded wings on the bottom of the keels. Any discussion here is welcome. I am not a welder but Ian has one and without chatting to him I wonder what problems arise with welding to pig Iron. Next visit to the mooring I will de-bung the loo!!! and put in new flanges etc. after another thirty years sterling use while Ian fiddles with a rev counter. Yes Marjorie is in fine fettle from years of continual innovative improvements virtually all done by me. It is nice to have Ian aboard as he recently retired and I am 80 so my sailing days may be limited. I look forwards to your reply

Can you relate your prop effectiveness to clean hull speeds relative to a single or twin keeled configuration plus what speed performance the old prop gave and the engine ,then we can make some sense of the equation.'
Roy, as a non-techy, not so good at sums person, I get an instant headache when reading the above questions you have asked me. I have tried to apply my mind to your questions but the damn headache starts up before I can come up with any answers. All I know is that with the 2 blade prop, turning in reverse was quite wishy washy and you never knew if the boat was going to turn or not - not good in a crowded marina. In human terms, the boat/prop had a take up time problem or even suffered from cognitive shortfall when it came to responding to mechanical commands - bit like me responding to your questions. Duh!
I spoke to quite a few people about prop problems, including one or two Konsort owners before deciding to upgrade to a 3 blade prop and I left it to Hamble Propellers to do the equations re hull configuration / prop size etc.
Going to take some headache tabs now.

Have to disagree - a 3 blade is more efficient, has less vibration, and needn't produce much if any more drag. See this link for the reasoning.
www.westbynorth.com[...]ng.aspx

unquote*********

Merci
mais je reste sur le Discus.
Il y aussi le Freedom 35 qui me plait bien et autres mats auto-portés.
Les deux à chercher au Royaume-unis.